Wine Talk

Snooth User: JonDerry


Posted by JonDerry, Oct 27, 2012.

Continuing my journey into Burg-Ville, and interest in the 2010's specifically, I figured why get buried in the sea of the "WDT?" thread.

From the flight of 08-10 Burgundy I tasted earlier in the year to the 2010's I've had a chance to sample (having started hitting the shelves in force recently), it all seems to point to this being a stand-out vintage, at least for my palate. 

If the Tortochot Morey St. Denis Village wine I recently had was about the best $29.99 Pinot I've ever had, then the Bourgogne I tried last night seriously challenges that on its' merits (though with less power) and beats it on QPR at $19.99. What's more, Veronica from Hi Time mentioned she was about to put out an e-mail blast on this wine, having liked it so much, describing it as "very feminine". I'd describe it as "elegant" and "universally very good" with something for the old world (freshness, balance) and new world (fruit concentration) alike with no real weak points as the nose and finish are both satisfying.

Here it is, 2010 Mongeart-Mugneret Bourgogne - no joke!

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Reply by duncan 906, Oct 27, 2012.

Like you I am a big fan of Burgundy and regard them as the finest wines in the world but I have yet to have a 2010 I have a few Burgundies in my cupboard that  I am saving for Christmas.

Reply by CheloSpahn, Oct 27, 2012.

OMG I'm so jealous rigth now. That's one of the Pinot Noirs IO love from burgundy. Have you tried Louis Latour Pinot Noir? That's another one you can find at a reasonable price and very nice to.

Reply by duncan 906, Oct 28, 2012.

I have tried Louis Latour Pinot Noir, not the 2010 but the 2006.I recall that it was very nice and reasonable value for money but it is their basic negociant Burgundy.I have had better from the Burgundy region

Reply by duncan 906, Nov 25, 2012.

I have just started on a bottle of Louis Latour Marsannay 2007.Definitely better than their basic Pinot Noir 2006.I drank half the bottle tonight with my steak supper and will probably finish it off tomorrow and write up a review for Snooth

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 25, 2012.

I hear there's a producer named Audoin doing some great things in Marsannay...look for 2009 and 10 since the climate benefits from a little warmer weather there. Was actually going to mention this to Zuf in another thread.

Since the original post, my opinion on the Mugneret Bourgogne has come back to earth a bit...found the 2nd bottle a little too thin and acidic but overall it's about as good as you're gonna do with $20 in Burgundy.

I'm going to try and also re-taste the Tortochot Morey St Denis also.




Reply by zufrieden, Nov 27, 2012.

Great Information, Jon.  I really hope to meet some of you people soon; it just seems that events at home keep interventing, so... I need to change that reality. 

GregT who I respect greatly in matters oenolocial has apparently abandoned Pinot Noir for price and other reasons (most of these reasons are actually  defensible)and just may not be so captured by the sensuality of this grape.  But when we all finally meet (and that will happen, you can be sure) perhaps a midpoint of opinion will emerge.

I love Pinot Noir - when it expresses the kind of sensuality I seek - and I speak of poetry here rather than simply gender. That PN rarely matches expectation is probably due to the finicky nature of the grape.

I do hear good things about 2010 although I have not tasted any of these in quantity.  Most of my collection is 2004-2009 and is getting rather thin.

But do keep those tastings coming!



Reply by outthere, Nov 27, 2012.

A little bird named GSO dropped me off a 2010 Tortochot Morey-St. Denis today. Looking forward to giving it a spin. If anyone has had this wine, or any village 2010 Burg this year, how much air should I give it? Total baby killer at this point but what the heck.

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 27, 2012.


I think I'm one of the few who've had this wine ; )

...I loved it off the pop n' pour, and followed it over 4 days. It was a little wobbly on day 4, but hope you enjoy the ride as much as I did.

Reply by JonDerry, Oct 29, 2014.

Amazing how the years pass...had to sit out 2011 for the most part. The weakness of '11 was apparent in the only Bourgogne I tried, a Bouchard, so much so that I didn't try anymore and may not look back.

Fast Forwarding to 2012, I've tried a Hubert Lignier Bourgogne, which I thought an incredible effort for the level, even if the price of $40 was uninspiring, at least the wine came through, even at that price. I've tried a 2nd bottle of it since and enjoyed it again. 

Now for a new producer. Ian Cauble was writing/hyping this producer on Somm Select the other day, David Duband, and so as I tend to do, I looked to see if any locals carried it and sure enough, Hi Time in Costa Mesa came through with the goods. From what I read, he comes from a family of growers, and in 1991 a negociant asked if someone in the family could make the wine as well, and supposedly he stepped up to the plate then for the first time at 19.

Wine info...This bottling is made from a combination of fruit from around areas of (Chambolle, Morey St. Denis and Hautes Cotes de Nuits). 30% whole cluster fermentation and sees no new oak whatsoever.

In tasting the wine, I don't doubt the info at all. Totally get Morey characteristics, but then the softness of Chambolle. The stems/whole cluster was apparent early on, but not cloyingly so, in fact I liked what they did for the wine, and found that they either integrated well with air (or at least I got used to them).

A dense perfume of dark red and black cherry, herbs, and mild spice leaps from the glass. Has a good medium plus weight to it, with the cherry impressions repeating on the palate along with added cranberry flavor. Ripe and supple, with good extract and moderate whole cluster apparent, adding some tension, freshness, and some useful tannin. Very much fruit driven otherwise as this is very true to the Morey and Chambolle fruit sources. No new oak. Finishes gracefully, medium in length with understated intensity. Though a touch on the riper side, there's little to no alcohol apparent. Recommended.

Reply by dvogler, Oct 29, 2014.

Great write up JD!  You made me want to have some Pinot Noir!

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 5, 2014.

On tap for tonight...first go with Dujac!

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 5, 2014.


Lively aromatics of dark red and black fruit, sous bois, eucalyptus.
Has a silky, satiny texture. Low to medium viscosity. Extremely elegant and with a weightlessness to it. Good medium fruit concentration. Fresh cranberry, raspberry, pomegranate, with medium plus stems apparent.
Finishes soft and seductively, quiet in power but with an underlying firmness, and resonance to it. An excellent, sophisticated MSD village. 12.5 ABV.
Stems are a big part of the structure here...I didn't find them overbearing at all however. Will be interesting to follow this over the years.
Reply by Richard Foxall, Nov 5, 2014.

Assuming that's "sous bois," and a typo. The expression is something like "forest floor," or "under the woods."  "Bois" can also mean "wood," like wooden--i.e., une chaise de bois = wooden chair.  "soie" is silk, and "Sois" is a declension of the verb etre (sorry, can't put a circumflex on there). 

Nice bit here about Dujac favoring whole cluster. Hence the "steminess."

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 6, 2014.

Yes sous, thanks Fox

Really enjoying this and watching it unfold tonight. I knew I'd need some medicine if I was to watch the Warriors/Clippers tonight,

Reply by dmcker, Nov 6, 2014.

You beat me to it, Fox. Always good to clarify terminology!

That Dujac (which vintage I haven't had), pretty much sounds like the Burgundy/pinot noir (generally, since the only one worth drinking in the New World back then was Chalone's) I cut my teeth on, including the whole-cluster/steminess which is not unique to Maison Dujac. Going from that sensibility to most of California's PN is too often a tough row to hoe. Even after these decades of efforts in OT's neighborhood and further north by many talented people, I still feel like I'm returning home when I have a solid Burgundy, not so much with whatever permutation from CA and OR. Probably easier if you start New World then transition to the Old, rather than the reverse. Am always interested to hear about any more-disciplined effort from CA that anyone on these boards runs across, since I'm not getting across the pond much these days nor as noted elsewhere do I currently have the time to hunt the NorCall forests and fields for the elusive well-done PN to the extent I used to.

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 6, 2014.

Couldn't agree more...Burgundy feels like home to me now, even though I started out appreciating the odd CA Pinot, when I got the Burgundy bug it hit hard.

Still, I have a few contenders...some cool vintage Littorai, Cobb, etc. I'm going to lay them down a while before opening any, but I think Ted Lemon from Littorai has the right attitude, that you just can't compare the new and old world PN, they're two different animals.

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 15, 2014.

And another 2012 Bourgogne. Not one of my favorites, as the freshness just wasn't quite there, borders on over-ripe, stewed fruit. Picked up a little spritziness as well. This wasn't all bad however, I thought there was good spice, and just a touch of funk that I enjoyed on the nose. Not surprising however, as this Domaine has the younger generation in charge now from what I understand, trending toward a modern style. Actually reminded me a bit of the 2011 Fourrier village I was also disappointed with. Both just more Californiacated than I'd like to see. There's also some potential for improvement here, so I may have to revisit in another 5-10 years to see how this plays out.

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 22, 2014.

Aromatics very nice, however the palate is bordering on over-ripe. Without enough enough freshness to balance, the ripe cherry fruit is not particularly heady or Chambolle like. Relatively short on the finish. There did seem to be some underlying minerality and structure in the background, so it's possible some time will help this, but I would not be a buyer based on this.

Out of the seven 2012 red burgundy I've tasted, here is my ranking.

1. Dujac Morey St. Denis

2. Hubert Lignier Bourgogne Rouge (maybe this should be #3, but considering the level...)

3. Tortochot Chambertin 1er Champaux

4. Domaine Anne Gros Bourgogne

5. Perrot Minot Bourgogne (Very close between this and the Anne Gros)

6. David Duband Bourgogne 

7. Lignier Michelot Chambolle Musigny V.V.

Reply by dmcker, Nov 22, 2014.

Are you comfortable with putting these into an overall context for the rest of us? Dare I say 'points'? You did start the ball rolling by ranking them, after all...

Reply by JonDerry, Nov 22, 2014.

If pressed to score...

92 - Dujac Morey St. Denis

90+ Hubert Lignier Bourgogne

90+ Tortochot Gevrey Chambertin 1er Champaux

89+ Domaine Anne Gros Bourgogne

88-89 - Perrot Minot Bourgogne

88 - David Duband Bourgogne

86-87 - Lignier Michelot Chambolle Musigny VV

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