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Snooth User: jbaker162

Hello Snooth!

Posted by jbaker162, Jan 11, 2017.

I am the owner and winemaker at Chateau Niagara winery in Newfane, NY. We are a small lot winery of artisan French and Eastern European wines. 

Replies

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 11, 2017.

Welcome to Snooth.

What can you tell us about your winery, its wines, and the wines you personally like to drink?

 

 

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Reply by Snoother 2120088, Jan 11, 2017.

We make dry Riesling, Chardonnay and Gerwurztraminer. We also do a Pinot Noir Noir,a Hungarian style Bulls Blood, a Bordeaux red blend and an exceptional Cab Franc. This year we are doing a Georgian Saperavi and a Russian Kagor. These are all cool climate wines with rich fruit character and nice acidity.

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 11, 2017.

Might be good to clarify the relationship between these two avatars.

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Reply by bostonlobsterman, Jan 11, 2017.

Spam. 

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 11, 2017.

Or someone's mistaken understanding of what constitutes good SEO.

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Reply by GregT, Jan 11, 2017.

But if they are legit, they could be good contributors.

I'm curious about the Bull's Blood. What exactly is in it?

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 12, 2017.

The Georgian and Russian versions, too. Would be curious how they think their PN does, which you know of course, Greg, has to be the best of the batch!  ;-)

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Reply by rckr1951, Jan 13, 2017.

GREG - Bikaver is the word that means bull's blood and it is on the bottle. I know that several different kinds of grapes are used.  a friend of mine used to buy it all the time in Madison and would on an occasion bring over a bottle.

He said there are 3 levels but I've only had 2 of Hungry's best reds, I say sarcastically.  Usually around $10 a bottle look for Egri Bikavber - Egri being the area where the wine is made.  

Personally, for the price point, it's not bad - just not real good - it is entry level and it shows,  Once for the novelty for me.

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Jan 13, 2017.

RCKR, I think GregT is interested in the poster's Egri Bikaver.  GregT is actually an expert on Hungarian wine, perhaps even more so than Spanish.  He's written a pretty long article on the history of Hungarian wine. I think the site maybe gone, unless it's this  and they took off the byline.  In any case, Wine Enthusiast quotes him here.  

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Reply by GregT, Jan 13, 2017.

I don't know about that Fox but you're right, I was interested in the poster's version.

RCKR - Bikavér is produced in both Eger and Szeksárd. Liszt, who was Hungarian, used to drink the Szeksárd version and there's a producer there now who is making a version in honor of Liszt. It's pretty good too. Egri just means from Eger. IMO, the Szeksárd version is a little softer and usually better because they're not still influenced by the local politics as much. It's also probably the first place it was made but that's not really clear. Eger has far more potential but it's held back. It also has the great story regarding Bull's Blood, so claims to be the origin.

That horrible communist-era cheap stuff is from the communist co-op Egervin - just avoid it. It was made for the Soviet market and quality of any type was never a consideration.

There are actually production requirements, just like there are for Bordeaux or Chianti. The base used to be Kadarka, much like Merlot is the base for much Bordeaux, but after phylloxera, a few world wars, and communism, all that changed.

Here’s something from a symposium in Eger about twenty years ago:

"The most significant variety is the Kadarka grape, which provides the spicy bouquet to the wine. The Nagyburgundi grape variety contributes the deep red color and its fine tannin taste. The Medoc Noir grape contributes the fieriness and the characteristic aroma of the Egri Bikaver wine. While the unfermented sugar of the Medoc Noir grape somewhat soothes the harshness of the other wines, the true velvety feel of the Egri Bikaver wine is often obtained by the addition of Oporto and Cabernet grape varieties."

In Szekszárd, Bikavér has to spend at least a year in oak and it has to include at least three varieties. Forty percent has to be Kékfrankos and Kadarka, and then you can’t have more than 10% each of any others. They also have a rule for the Premium class, which gets extra aging and can have some additional grape varieties.

Allowed varieties include Zweigelt, Syrah, Blauburger, Menoire, Tannat, Sagrantino (I really need to double check this although I do know a guy growing it so who knows), and a few local things that I don’t remember. At the higher level they also allow Pinot Noir, Cab, Cab Franc and Merlot.

Eger has three classes of Bikavér. The basic version has to be mostly Kékfrankos and nothing can be over 50% of the blend. The higher versions require longer aging, along the lines of a reserve or gran reserve in Spain, and they can’t use wood chips or do any alcohol reduction, micro ox, reverse osmosis, etc.

Here are a few of the grapes used today: Cabernet Franc, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Pinot Noir, Kékfrankos, Kadarka, Blauburger, Kékoportó, Kékmedoc, Zweigelt. That last one didn't even exist before the 1900s, so it's not part of any tradition. But they used to plant different varieties in a vineyard - the fetish for monoculture is really only from the late 20th century, so I suppose tradition would include whatever you plant.

 

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Jan 13, 2017.

Technically, the OP's wine wouldn't be Egri Bikaver, just Bikaver, and he didn't call it that.  Basically he's making a blend using grape varieties that would be found in "Bull's Blood."  Whew.  Gotta slow down.

Are we all trying to avoid serious work this afternoon?  I mean, those of us who aren't actually retired.

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Reply by rckr1951, Jan 13, 2017.

Thanks for clearing that up - I've only had the Egri Bikaver so it's not something I'd go out of my way to find - however it's knowledge gained.

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 14, 2017.

Greg obviously can answer with a lot more specifics but I've had a range of them over the years, purchased in Asia (mostly meh...) North America and Europe, with some of them surprisingly interesting and pleasant, especially for the price. Might be worth further explorations, RCKR.

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Reply by rckr1951, Jan 15, 2017.

I acn see that and I shall when offerings become available.

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Reply by Snoother 2120088, May 11, 2017.

I am having some difficulty with the management of this system. I am the same person as JBAKER162 but cant quite get the login. In any event, I am certainly a bit lax in getting back into this forum. With regards to the Bull's Blood, ours is a blend of Cabernet Franc, Blaufrankisch and Turan. We grow these grapes here in western NY. Our Kagor has been switched from its first version from Cabernet Franc to Saperavi and the switch is well worth it. Deeper flavors and more authentic flavor. If anyone is in the Niagara Falls area, please come visit us.

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Reply by jbaker162, May 11, 2017.

So apparently I have two accounts. This is a legitimate post and not spam. I'm sorry for the mixup. I created a Facebook login as well as my email login. 

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Reply by EMark, May 11, 2017.

Good job, JBaker.  Thanks to you, and Wikipedia, I now know what Saperavi is.   

:-)

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Reply by jbaker162, May 11, 2017.

I love working with this grape. Cold hardy with twice the production of my other vinifrra. Beautiful color and a Syrah flavor as a dry wine. It added depth to my Kagor. 

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, May 16, 2017.

JB

If any of your wines make their way to Australia let me know and I will seek them out


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