Wine Talk

Snooth User: Tombalina Wines

Screw caps Vs cork

Original post by Tombalina Wines, Sep 12, 2010.

So I'm just wondering......what's everyone's take on the old screw caps vs cork debate....?  How would you best describe the role of each, and overcome perceptual barriers....?

Replies

27
957
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 14, 2010.

NG - you are right about sensitivity, and I have seen studies that show some people are far more sensitive to TCA than others, my wifes sister, who despite being a NZSB fanatic [can't help family!] can pick TCA in any wine "at 100 paces".  It is amazing we can open a good or great red have a sniff, maybe some doubt, give it to her and she goes yes or no just like that and she is always right.  A little air just helps the TCA bloom into a symphony of wet hession aromas.

Corks will survive until innovation develops a closure we are all happy with and probably beyond that

My concern is that sitting in the wilderness exists many great wines lovingly cared for by collectors, sommelliers, us drinkers and so on which will tragically dissappoint us on the day the wine is opened for some auspicious/suspicious event.  This would not be tolerated on any other product we purchase to consume as a food or drink [in fact our food and drink laws seem to conveniently ignore TCA which makes me wonder if there is any health risk from corked wine?]

PS - Foxall we are all cheapskates and connoissieurs it is only the budget we can scrounge to spend that changes!!

20
3577
Reply by Richard Foxall, Sep 15, 2010.

SH: Right on--we are all trying to drink as well as we can for no more than necessary.  Hence our attempts to help you find better deals on Cali pinots. 

I think NG has it right that the top end are not going to take this on until the argument is settled clearly in favor of screw caps, if it comes to that, because they have a market that cares profoundly about tradition.  But there is clearly momentum, and maybe someone will make the big leap and the others will follow. There will probably be subtle changes to the screw cap first, like getting the plastic away from the wine.  Ceramics are much more flexible in te types of applications than most people realize.  As a student project 50+ years ago, my father built a flexible bridge made of glass.  The Gorilla glass being used in Droid cell phone screes is an interesting product that could wind up in this market.  Maybe dmcker (it was he, yes?) will be proven right that a "glass" closure will be the standard some day.  It won't be much like the glass we are used to, perhaps, but it will still be glass.

12
299
Reply by rolifingers, Sep 15, 2010.

No more waiters corkscrews, capsule cutters, Rabbit cork pullers cluttering your kitchen drawer.Pretty cool.

152
1968
Reply by napagirl68, Sep 15, 2010.

Yes, Rolifingers.. easy access.. everyone's dream :-)

20
3263
Reply by dmcker, Sep 15, 2010.

NG, what was Erica Jong's old concept about the zipperless... ? ;-)

152
1968
Reply by napagirl68, Sep 16, 2010.

OMG-  I remember sneaking to read my mom's fear of flying book at age 12... wow.. was pretty interesting... didn't remember the above ref today, but looked up... is ZIPLESS   LOL!!!   Is there such a thing?  For a man, perhaps ;-) Oxytocin may be at fault for us gals-  :-(

On topic.. anyone see anything about irradiating corks?  I have not had time to research yet... 

27
957
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 16, 2010.

2,4,6-Trichloroanisole

The demon has been unmasked!!!!

 

27
957
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 16, 2010.

NG and other chemist types

I found a site with more technical data on TCA

www.chemicalbook.com

type 2,4,6-Trichloroanisole into the search box

Interesting question - what does TCA get used in?

What if it is used in pesticide sprays etc?

152
1968
Reply by napagirl68, Sep 16, 2010.

I've always thought of TCA is a byproduct of spores, but can also be caused by the bleaching of the corks.  Here is a wiki excerpt:

The production of TCA in cork or its transfer by other means in to wine is complex, but most results when naturally-occurring airborne fungi are presented with chlorophenol compounds, which they then convert into chloroanisole. Chlorophenols taken up by cork trees are an industrial pollutant found in many pesticides and wood preservatives, which may mean that the incidence of cork taint has risen in modern times. Ironically, chlorophenols can also be a product of the chlorine bleaching process used to sterilize corks; this has led to the increasing adoption of methods such as peroxide bleaching.

10
199
Reply by Andrew46, Sep 16, 2010.
"I've always thought of TCA is a byproduct of spores, but can also be caused by the bleaching of the corks."
NG, I am with you.  I believe that the bleach link has been disproved, although there are better sterilization methods anyway.  I don't have time to research today, but did wiki have links to papers to support the claims above?  I feel certain that the only significant cause of TCA is the fungi/mold mentioned first.  I have felt sure of things that later turn out to be false before, so not 100% but pretty close.
27
957
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 16, 2010.

NG - I read the wiki article and I have read about instance of cork related TCA taint, and have just been involved with one today.

We think it maybe due to pesticide spray and it is being analysed by one of our reearch labs hence my interest.

My chemistry is a bit scratchy since last did it in 1st year uni in late 70's

20
3577
Reply by Richard Foxall, Sep 16, 2010.

Only NG could take us from Erica Jong to a discussion of chemistry in the same post.  Where was she sitting in the h.s. chemistry class that seemed so boring to me? Of course, she would have been paying attention while I would have been clowning around.  

So is it fair to say that the ultimate goal is easy access and outstanding chemistry?  I mean, for the right wine closure, of course. Of course, longevity in wines and relationships may be a little more complex.

20
3263
Reply by dmcker, Sep 16, 2010.

Fox, I could introduce you to a number of people I know in Ibiza, Mykonos, Goa, Bali, Koh Phangan, and even the urban centers we live near or frequent who are way ahead of you on that outstanding chemistry/zipperless access goal of yours. But then again, San Fran, Big Sur et al. pretty much launched that back in my early teens, anyway.

You are stepping into deeper waters when you talk about how wines and relationships age with time. Let's see you start a thread on that!   ;-)

20
3577
Reply by Richard Foxall, Sep 16, 2010.

dmcker, I took chemistry as a junior in HS and worked hard enough to get an A first semester, then started applying to colleges that would accept me after my junior year.  Realizing the colleges would never see my final grade, I started skipping my morning classes to go the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston (I mentioned living outside Beantown in my "How did you start" tome) with my parents' blessing. I was such a pretentious little s***. When I did show up for chem, my classmate and I spent our time writing a screenplay.  Chemistry is my weak point in science as a result.  Now, the other part of it, yeah, I didn't have to look it up to know it was "zipperless."

As for Big Sur, I have had some very trippy experiences there without chemical enhancement. My wife used to work for Omega, an East Coast version of Esalen, so she usually sees someone she knows or drops a name and we go soak.  We honeymooned at Deetjen's, lunched at Nepenthe, dined at Post Ranch.  Next year we will leave the kids with friends and celebrate our tenth at Post Ranch--this time we'll take the room as well and not worry about the fog.

We really must have a drink when you are here--although I am a bit younger than you are, I suspect, some of those pioneers of chemistry have made more than passing appearances in my life.  Them, and their kids. 

20
3577
Reply by Richard Foxall, Sep 16, 2010.

Oops, I meant "zipless." Sheesh.

20
3263
Reply by dmcker, Sep 16, 2010.

And NG, it was 'Candy', 'Peyton Place' (and yes, 'Fanny Hill') that got me started at skimming books for the juicy parts. Initially directed by the daughter of our local Presbyterian minister, I quickly learned to search for my own--by 13 I was a master in all the related skills. 'Fear of Flying' was a bit later, and I actually read the whole book soon after it came out.  ;-)

20
3263
Reply by dmcker, Sep 16, 2010.

Meant to say 'got me started at age 11 in skimming'. Where is that post-posting edit function?????

152
1968
Reply by napagirl68, Sep 16, 2010.

Hey... I was raised strict Catholic by an italian mother and grandmother... dad had nothing to do with church.. he is an atheist.  I just know that all my fellow suffering friends and I knew the go-to juciest books.  Us catholics were the WORST!  LOL!  All that repression....

27
957
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 17, 2010.

Sorry to go back to Chemistry, but I have confirmed that you can get TCA affected grapes when a fungicide is used to control botyrtis in the vineyard.

Evidently there is a reaction between the bot and some chemical in the fuungicide that produces TCA.

Corked wine without corks - I learn something new every day

2
6
Reply by jtorrisi, Sep 17, 2010.

If a screw top is good enough for $200.00 bottle of scotch is should be good enough for a $50.00 bottle of wine...IMO



Continue to the end of the thread to reply
Back to Categories

Popular Topics

  • posts

Top Contributors This Month

259386 Snooth User: zufrieden
259386zufrieden
12 posts
1413489 Snooth User: dvogler
1413489dvogler
7 posts
357808 Snooth User: vin0vin0
357808vin0vin0
6 posts

Categories

View All




Snooth Media Network