Wine Talk

Snooth User: Really Big Al

Wine Pairing with 08 Nov 2016 Election Night

Original post by Really Big Al, Nov 8, 2016.

The election is over but the fun continues!  How far can our country be dragged down by 'fake news' and 'alternative facts'?  You be the judge...

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Replies

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Reply by Really Big Al, Nov 9, 2016.

What happened to common sense?  

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Reply by MJET, Nov 9, 2016.

RBA-The 2005 PS was excellent. Dark purple with a beautiful black fruit-floral nose. Big black-blue fruit but very smooth on entry. A little pepper/spice mid-palate. It's full body with a long smooth finish. It went most excellent with our steak!!! Really good. 

BTW: Sadly both of our candidates were majorly flawed. Very sad times. But in the end the people are tired of the cheating, lying and free hand-outs. Let's see how and what he does....... 

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Reply by outthere, Nov 9, 2016.

Dear America,

"You're Fired!"

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Reply by dvogler, Nov 9, 2016.

Canadian Immigration website crashed last night as the results were unfolding.

 

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Reply by rckr1951, Nov 9, 2016.

It was a very interesting night for an independent like me. The ebb and flow was dramatic, last minute registrations were at an all time high, as was absentee voting.  More women voted republican than anyone ever thought.  There were several ballots cast with Clinton for pres and the rest of the ballot was republican - repubs against Trump- but as the ballots came through, our little area went Republican for the first time in decades.

The general feeling was that the democrats weren't listening and dismissed the mainstream America. This was a decision breaking point for largely rural areas in the US. ..and guess what.  This morning there wasn't a lot of talk about the election - the talk was about work, their jobs, cost of medical care - people going to the doctor - daily life.

I feel that it is now the responsibility of the Republicans to create a an ethical, moral system of economic growth for ALL, solve the growing debt and get health care straightened out.  The House and Senate and the office of the President all being republican is not what I like to see.  One of them needs to be Democratic to create a safer system of checks and balances, but it is what it is and I sincerely hope the repubs look at this tremendous responsibility with temperance and what is right for all.

5AM came late - 171/2 hrs of polling and tabulating.  Long satisfying day of service.

 

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Reply by JonDerry, Nov 9, 2016.

Well said Paul

Was a rough morning for me, nothing to do with the election but I sure paid the price for going out last night.  Buoyed slightly by wallstreet's performance today. Took the opportunity to do some selling.

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Reply by dmcker, Nov 9, 2016.

"The prospect of Hillary's cackle and caw for the next four years leaves me terrified, but the idea of the Donald's disinterest in the state of the world is equally terrifying."

I felt it was her election to lose--and she did. Hopefully after this debacle we won't have to see her much anymore, but who knows. As for an offshore view, the Chinese curse comes to mind:  'may you live in interesting times'. We now do, if we didn't before. Putin, China, the Near East are only the beginning. The Americas? Etc., etc. I have the unfortunate feeling this may be looked back on as a particularly historic election. America's involvement outside its borders is so integrated into the whole that mistakes and messes overseas (or across near borders) will only increase their reverberations domestically.

Personally would have preferred the cackle and caw, even if not attractive. Fillmore and others didn't have the ability to directly cause the deaths and mayhem and restriction of human rights (and social services and quality of governmental interfaces) that this guy now has. Who in government will be able to limit and re-direct the guy's very-wrong tendencies in healthier directions? Demagoguery can obviously win elections, but good governance is something else entirely. If he tries to management the government and its relationships the way he managed his businesses, then we're in for a nasty rollercoaster ride, the perhaps a short one before impeachment.

If I had the fiscal capabilities I once had I would have started the TSF, or Trump Short Fund, and sold all sorts of financial aspects of the US short. Then I'd be inviting everyone to an island where the cellars would be well stocked. Imagine arbitrageurs and Canadian immigration folk will be working overtime for awhile.

I also can't help but wonder about how the decline in American public schools and newspapers has contributed to a situation where this might happen. But that's another long discussion.

 

 

"The general feeling was that the democrats weren't listening and dismissed the mainstream America. This was a decision breaking point for largely rural areas in the US. ..and guess what.  This morning there wasn't a lot of talk about the election - the talk was about work, their jobs, cost of medical care - people going to the doctor - daily life.

I feel that it is now the responsibility of the Republicans to create a an ethical, moral system of economic growth for ALL, solve the growing debt and get health care straightened out.  The House and Senate and the office of the President all being republican is not what I like to see.  One of them needs to be Democratic to create a safer system of checks and balances, but it is what it is and I sincerely hope the repubs look at this tremendous responsibility with temperance and what is right for all."

 

 

RCKR, interesting to see your description of voter activity in your area. Thanks for taking the time.

I detect a serious disconnect here. Why are Republicans expected to improve domestic jobs? Regarding that second paragraph I trust you're not holding your breath. My hope is that the Republicans who were revolting against Trump's selection will continue their guerilla warfare against him. That may be one way to keep some things in check. Hopefully, but maybe not likely.  :-(

 

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Reply by rckr1951, Nov 9, 2016.

DMCKER - Your hope is mine to a degree.  The truth is that the Dems can stop the process in the Senate because of the 60 vote mandate. They'll have to be bartered with by the guys across the isle and hopefully cooler heads will prevail.

I've not seen anything that Trump has proposed that has plussed me except for his statement on infrastructure and I would hope that the House and Senate leadership would council him wisely about his proclaimed ventures, modifying them properly. He's promised jobs - no plans other than the previously mentioned (Of note - Obama tried it and it failed.)

The disconnect is real and if you listen to the pundits on CNN and CNBC you'd think all whites that voted for Trump are racists, which is a big problem. In our area the women that voted red HATE Hillary with as much vengeance as those that voted blue against Donald.  It was personal for them in many ways.

That said I personally think that many viewed the government as giving it away, America's place in the world that is, the ACA as an unrealistic path - economically it's extremely hard for people to make a go of it in smaller rural areas, and pride - the sense of self and their country had been diminished were the major factors in her defeat. The democratic party didn't get that. DT did - simply put. Now if he can accomplish

Believe me I'm NOT holding my breath.  Thanks for the thoughts guys.

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Reply by outthere, Nov 10, 2016.

Here's a good lunchtime read that makes you think, hmmm.

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Nov 10, 2016.

I just finished watching "Citizen 4" over the weekend.  I think the world of Greenwald.  And I've been saying a lot of this since the FIRST time Bill Clinton got elected.  The red meat Bill threw to white working-class conservatives was DOMA/DADT, amping up the "war on drugs," and "welfare reform."  (Wondering how that has worked?  Read this.  If you have the time or stomach, listen to or read the whole series.)  Meanwhile, he deregulated banks, pushed NAFTA without apology, and encouraged a casino economy that later failed.  Great economy?  He should have thanked Geo HW Bush for raising taxes for him and Greenspan for not cooling off the markets... and, of course, just plain demographics.  But did Bill really confront the structural changes that those swing voters faced?

And I think she's just dreadful, too, but I find a complaint about how she sounds a little irrelevant and, um, uneven, to put it nicely--for my part, I get sick of any president's voice within a very short time, even if I happen to like him.  I haven't heard that complaint about any of the men who have run, except maybe Ross Perot. But a know-nothing who scorns the rule of law, has no attention span, and can't keep his mouth under control for 90 minutes is not "equally terrifying." Categorically different.

I hope RCKR (can I just call you Paul?) is right.  There's a schism between Trump and lots of Repubs, but not on the stuff I care about, so it's up to the Dems in Senate to hold the line. That schism is also more with the wonks--the officeholders disavowed him only because they thought he was going to lose and drag them down.  I think we can safely say that on January 21, 2017, the following will be sent to Trump for  repeal: clean air and water acts, Obamacare (promised already), restrictions on mining/foresting federal lands, taxes on polluting industries/subsidies for clean energy, ADA, and on and on.  They might take their time on some, like the ADA, so they don't appear too cruel right away, and there are only 24 hours in a day (and Trump will lose interest too fast to sign more than a few at a time), but the meetings are underway to see just how much they can execute a "contract on America" before they have to answer to voters in midterm elections. Don't like regulation?  Welcome back smog, and kiss your safe drinking water goodby in Flint and anywhere else that's strapped for cash.  Visit your National Parks now, before they are privatized. What the house and senate GOP will keep him from doing is... undoing global trade deals.  Repatriating corporate taxes, except at a very low rate, imposing costs on offshoring jobs.  You know, the real populist stuff.  IF they agree on an infrastructure deal, they have no realistic proposal to pay for one, but you can bet lots of money will go to developers that ultimately are as inept as Trump.  (Two more Trump branded properties went into bankruptcy while the campaign was on.  What does that say about his willingness to give his okay to idiots?)

The good news for me is I live in California.  I'm in a wealthy state, with a less crazy electorate, and, unless the dollar absolutely crashes and inflation soars (Weimar Republic style...), I'm pretty well off.  I've got lots of life skills that are still in demand and a fair number of survival skills.  But I have kids, and recovering from pollution, dealing with the deficit after he ruins the economy, and turning people around from hatred before they have to inherit this mess is going to be hard.  A day to ruin, a lifetime to restore. 

Greenwald is right that Trump voters were denied their voice, and I cop to being a member of the liberal elite (as should Greenwald). The liberal elite aren't monolithic (remember, I was shouting this from the rooftops 24 years ago).  That said, this time, I voted for a Clinton for the first time ever.  Because this time it really was too serious to do otherwise. 

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Reply by Really Big Al, Nov 10, 2016.

Nice assessment RC.  I voted for Hillary and I just can't understand why anyone would vote for Trump, with his lies, deceit, backdoor business deals and things of this nature.  He will ruin our country if left to his own devices.  I can only hope he ends up in jail for all the groping, defrauding and such.  Impeachment isn't out of the question but only a matter of time.

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Reply by rckr1951, Nov 10, 2016.

You can all call me Paul, it doesn't bother me at all.  

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Reply by duncan 906, Nov 10, 2016.

Surely what you would drink on election night depends on whether you are celebrating [champagne? ] or drowning your sorrows [ bourbon? ] Personally.from what I saw on the media on my side of the great pond. I thought it one of the most acrimonious and dirty elections I have ever seen in a 'civilised' counrty I was not impressed with either candidate. It was a choice between a witch and a bufoon.

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Nov 10, 2016.

If we're lucky, he'll be no worse than Berlusconi.  Which is still pretty horrible.  But Berlusconi didn't command an army, wasn't beholden to a foreign power, and ruled a pretty small country in the scheme of things. 

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Nov 10, 2016.

Well, Paul, and to all those folks Greenwald says the Dems aren't addressing who voted for Trump, here's your answer:

Trump's going big on the lobbyists, bringing in Koch's guys (fracking under vineyards! tar sands in Yellowstone!), Microsoft's guys who really want the TPP to pass, lots of Wall Street shills--hey, if he can't live on what they pay, a measly $400K, Trump's going to have to give some "inspirational" talks at Goldman Sachs--and insurance companies.  So much for looking out for the working man. 

That did not take long. 

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Nov 10, 2016.

Add to my list above:  Dramatic hits to Social Security, especially disability (and worst for mental health disability).  Gutting of Dodd-Frank, Sarbanes-Oxley.  The pension benefit guaranty corp will be gutted.  (It's bad enough already.)  Investment advisors will not be held to fiduciary standards (just instituted, will be undone).  Class action will be even more severely curtailed, so your bank can nickel and dime you since no lawyer can get paid.  401k and similar fees will go up dramatically, as there will be no ability to sue the plan sponsor or the manager.  Everything will be sold with an arbitration clause attached so you can never sue for a defective product or malfeasance of a service.  Maybe this wasn't on the minds of voters--Paul, did anyone mention financial deregulation in your neck of the woods?--but it's going to be when they see how their banks treat them, unfettered.  After saying he wouldn't, Trump went begging to the PACs.  If he decides to run again, he'll need them more.  And the Congress has always needed them, so the lobbyists will get whatever they want now. Trump isn't going to stand in the way of it.  He's already made his u-turn.

All of this will help the little guy how?  I get that they feel ignored, but who would ever believe Trump would actually help them? 

Next time the electorate wants dramatic change, maybe they can think a little bit more about how to make that happen.  (And, yes, maybe one of the parties can make a case that they are serious about change and equity.) Showing up every four years (or eight) and voting for the loudest voice in the room isn't any better than burning tires in an intersection.  And the stench sticks around longer.

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Reply by duncan 906, Nov 10, 2016.

Good point about Berlusconi Foxall. He was another bufoon. He got some bad publicity here when the G8 was held in London and all the world leaders got invited to dinner at Buckingham palace and there was a group photograph with the Queen. He started larking about and got put in his place by Her Majesty. At the end of his period in office there was an investigation into his use of teenage prostitutes. He has spent his retirement trying to stay out of jail.

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Reply by JonDerry, Nov 10, 2016.

Someone who also seemed smart told me that the Koch's made a point to state their opposition towards Trump. Was that a front, or things changed, how do you form your opinion on the Koch/ fracking issue?

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Reply by JonDerry, Nov 10, 2016.

Funny, I just saw he tabbed an anti-climate change guy, Myron Ebell, to lead EPA transition.

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Reply by zufrieden, Nov 10, 2016.

As a Canadian - one has travelled extensively in the US and other places on business and for pleasure (you have a country that is beautiful, diverse and full of hope with talented and caring people - as well as all the other things we don't like to admit, but that goes with being human beings), I am not shocked at the result, but I was a bit surprised - having been partially drawn into the media assassination of Mr. Trump.  I had called for Hillary with about 284 electoral college votes, but as we now know, the reverse situation holds true.

Be optimistic.  We are on the cusp of change.  It might have been better for the moderately corrupt establishment to hobble on for another 4 years or so in order that the "third party" scenario - not really seen since the Progressive Era (1900-1914) - could emerge more naturally, and not be sabotaged as it was during the Clinton-Sanders primary battles.

But we digress from wine. Best of luck to you, and may my feelings about Mr. Trump be correct - that is, he is a man who is oriented toward outcomes... victories, no less - and now that he has won, I feel we might just start on the road to some of the structural change that the USA - nay, the world, needs.

For the record, in your place I might have voted for a minority candidate (maybe Jill Stein)... in case you were wondering.

Z.

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