Wine Talk

Snooth User: MJET

Wines at release and down the road

Posted by MJET, Apr 28, 2016.

Which Cab Sav's are REALLY good right of the bat (upon release from the winery) and even better after 5 years? 

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Replies

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Reply by Really Big Al, Apr 30, 2016.

What price range?  The more expensive ones tend to start well and age well too.  Our favorite cabs are similar to this one.  

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Reply by MJET, Apr 30, 2016.

Any price range although I believe the really good early drinkers will fall in the $30-$80 range...... I disagree with the expensive ones tend to start well as a lot of expensive cabs are built to age and not drink young. How much is that Rattlesnake? 

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Reply by Really Big Al, Apr 30, 2016.

It's pricy.  After talking to Sandra, she said it's now close to $175 a bottle.  Maybe not a good choice for this topic.

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Reply by GregT, May 1, 2016.

 

Why do you think a lot of expensive Cabs are made to age and not drink well young? It isn't my experience.

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Reply by JonDerry, May 2, 2016.

It should be said that aging a decent Cabernet 10 years should not be an issue at all. Especially if the wine is $50+, and I'd figure many to most would improve over that time frame. If we're talking classified Bordeaux, pretty much all would improve with 10-20 years of age.

I was at a party for my kids preschool and brought along a '12 Scarlett that could have used another couple years of age at least, along with a lower serving temperature, but it was more than fine for the occasion. Then one of the teachers said, there's another wine we could open. I barely went to check it out, figuring it would be an undrinkable sort of wine, but it was a 1999 Lone Madrone Cabernet Sauvignon, surprise!

16+ years, passive storage I'd assume, and it held up really well, maybe just starting its decline but still very enjoyable.

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Reply by outthere, May 2, 2016.

That Scarlett is a bruiser. Had one Christmas and felt it needed 10 years minimum.

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Reply by GregT, May 2, 2016.

Don't know the Scarlett but I've had a similar experience as the Lone Madrone that come from left field. What do you say about those? Advise people to store their wine in weird circumstances and then pop them out at fifteen or twenty years?  Anyhow, who's doing the Scarlett?

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Reply by JonDerry, May 3, 2016.

Scarlett is yet another in the Mike Smith stable.

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Reply by Richard Foxall, May 4, 2016.

I had two bottles of 1996 BV Rutherford a couple weeks ago.  Not the flagship, and I paid, with all that aging, $30 per.  And they rocked.  Lots of pricey cabs are made for upfront impact and are meant to drink young, so I think price has little to do with it.  Lots of people buy wines to collect just because they are pricey (see: SQN) that probably won't age well because of the winemaking or the grapes.  Really, it's all just style.  I don't think price and immediate drinkability are tightly correlated, that's more a confusion of the idea that expensive wines are usually the ones that do age well. 

Cab just generally, if well made and not a bomb, can use a few years to come into its own.  If you want something that is going to land ready to go, look for wineries that release late, like Smith Madrone (I think they are just now releasing 2012s, but they used to lag quite a bit more, like five years), or wineries with library programs (Spring Mountain is good for that), or look at older vintages from places that carry things you like and will ship.  (BPWines, K and L, Benchmark, etc.) 

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Reply by JonDerry, May 4, 2016.

Re: Cabernet, pricing, and ageability, perhaps it's better said that it's hard to find a Cabernet that is meant to improve with age at a price under, say $15 in today's market.

 

 

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Reply by Richard Foxall, May 4, 2016.

Hard to find a decent cab period for under $15.  I'd bet that most cabs under $30 aren't really going to improve that much because they aren't that great to begin with.  But I also will bet that quite a few expensive cabs will be quite good upon release or at least as enjoyable as they ever will be.  They will also be better than those 15-25 dollar cabs, except for a select few that are outliers. 

This post was about good-ou-ofthe-gate bottles.  Let's start another thread about "best ageable wines under $15-30-50."  That will be good topic, IMO.

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Reply by GregT, May 5, 2016.

About that Rutherford - those were great wines. One of the best values in Napa Cabs IMO. They did a lot of them and they were good. The style has changed now that Rolland is involved - they're bigger and riper so who knows. But good call. And they're still good out of the gate. Another huge production wine like that is Charles Krug. I have no idea how it ages though.

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Reply by rckr1951, May 12, 2016.

Richard - Columbia Crest H3 makes some very good Le Chevaux(2010/2011, Merlot(2011/2012) and Cabbies (2011/2012/3013) as does Chateau Ste. MiChelle - Their  merlot delivers every year, their cabby (2013 was great)  as does the Canoe Ridge & Indian Wells bottlings.

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Reply by MJET, May 12, 2016.

I appreciate all the feedback. A wine that drank excellent out of the gate for me was a 2012 Rivers Marie Cab. My wine collection is young hence the the creation of this thread. Again, any specific wines that taste great at year 3 or 4 and tastes as good or better at year 10? 

RF-start that thread..... Sounds educational and interesting. might be better than a pic and tasting note. LOL

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Reply by GregT, May 13, 2016.

Rivers Marie is its own thing.

The OP was about Cab and Cabs are tough but if you get away from Napa, and even better, if you get away from Cab, there are a lot of wines that taste great at year three and that are better 10 years on.

If you look beyond Cab, look to Spain and Italy and depending on how adventurous you are, maybe Greece and other places.

In CA, at your price range, if you look at non-Cabs, look at wines from producers like Edmunds St. John - people like Steve Edmunds make wines that are in a class of their own and they're not expensive. Or Halcon - a wine I know  because of OT and a wine that has little history but I'd be willing to bet on. Or some Zins - Ridge for example.

And there are Cabs, even in Napa - Steltzner, although now they/'ve sold and are no longer from the Stag's Leap vineyard. Beringer is an old-time producer too. 

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Reply by dmcker, May 13, 2016.

Not clear to me where, specifically, this thread is aimed. An overview of how wines mature, with particular focus on those that do well? Those that aren't closed early but do improve over time? Those that are good at first but don't improve over time? Those like Chateau Latour that remain closed for decades, only maturing after their owners get far too many grey hairs? California reds? All Cabs worldwide? OK to bring in maturation profiles for others, whether red or white? Even things like vintage ports? How about not just French but Italian varietals? So on and so forth. Seems a bit flaccid, scattershot, all over the place yet not getting anywhere, at moment.

If we're talking about wines that seem OK early on but get damned fine later, and are well worth waiting on before drinking (and chasing down if you've never had them before whether young or old), and that are not only vague wonderings about Caifornia reds, then this could get to be an interesting thread after quite a few more posts by several of us.

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Reply by rckr1951, May 13, 2016.

DMCKER - Agreed, there are many subtleties to this question. my response above was about less expensive wines that drink well now and can potentially age for 3-5 years.  I've done it with those wines. I think to limit the conversation to just Cali cabs is to narrow.  Any varietal - be it syrah, merlot, petit sirah, blends (Rhone or otherwise) etc should all be brought into the conversation.  Washington is putting out some mean Merlot in the $25 - $35 range that age really well and consider that Spain releases it's reservas and 3 years or more of aging with many sellin for under $30 and the conversation opens up considerably.  I'm a fan of both.

Why start another thread when this could develop nicely into a conversation with many recommendations for wines we'd never think of trying - I'd love to hear other peoples thougths on wines.

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Reply by outthere, May 13, 2016.

I think to limit the conversation to just Cali cabs is to narrow.

But that was the question posed by the OP. I don't think we should be at leisure to change the intent of the thread. If you/we want a more broad ranging discussion then a new thread should be started. The OP enjoys Cali cab and is looking for some input. IMO there is nothing more frustrating in wine forums than people not answering the questions posed.

Q: "I'm going to Napa this Summer, just me and my Wife on a romantic week away. What Mountain Cab producers should I visit"

A: "Well, they don't use mountain fruit and don 't make a cab but winery XYZ is really good. Their tasting room people are friendly and they allow to bring your dog and your children with you."

 

You know what I mean?

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Reply by rckr1951, May 13, 2016.

Yes I do - sorry to imply that the source question wasn't what should discussed.  It wasn't my intent,  I'll table my thoughts on other sources for another time and stick with the topic.  I was replying to a different set of thoughts and misunderstood..

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Reply by GregT, May 13, 2016.

"I don't think we should be at leisure to change the intent of the thread."

Good point.

Hey BTW - sometimes my car just dies after I've been at a stop sign or red light. I replaced the fuel pump and fuel filter and it doesn't seem to be an electrical problem.

Any ideas?

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